Jerry "Crumbs" Krause: He Gawn

Discussion in 'Sports Haps' started by BeviBall, Mar 21, 2017.

  1. BeviBall
    Offline

    BeviBall No wallet. No crack. Not me.

    :mj:
    Ziggy and chops like this.
  2. Cheeses
    Online

    Cheeses Do not be afraid to crush the cucks with your mind Cupcake Mod

    He was 77. :ohmy:
  3. SABRSox
    Offline

    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod

    The Bulls have had some really shitty front offices over the years...
  4. BeviBall
    Offline

    BeviBall No wallet. No crack. Not me.

    Oh the steak, and bottles of wine, Jordan will consume tonight. Maybe bet on a coupla ponies?
    chops likes this.
  5. Cheeses
    Online

    Cheeses Do not be afraid to crush the cucks with your mind Cupcake Mod

    Was he the author of "organizations win championships"?

    :mj:
  6. SABRSox
    Offline

    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod

    He was smart enough to draft Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant and Toni Kukoc. Beyond that, I guess he caught some lighting in a bottle by signing Rodman, but everything else was kind of a bust.
  7. y2chae
    Online

    y2chae Panda

    In what world was Jerry Krause shitty? Yeah he bungled the post dynasty break up but he drafted Grant, traded for Pippen, had the guts to trade Oakley for Cartwright, then in the second three peat he traded for Rodman and drafted Kukoc, signed Ron Harper. Also hired Phil Jackson who was a relative unknown at the time.

    He was also able to sign Pippen to an incredibly team friendly contract even though he told Pippen it was a bad deal for him.

    Ultimately it all blew up as a clash of egos between MJ and Jackson. Post dynasty he had some underrated moves. He drafted Tyson Chandler, Ron Artest, Elton Brand and Jamal Crawford. All became good NBA players. He signed Brad Miller, who became an All Star. If he had just kept that core and had the right coach. Floyd isn't a bad coach, but he wasn't the right coach for a mass rebuilding project like that.
  8. y2chae
    Online

    y2chae Panda

    What is not true about that statement? The Sox and Bears squandered some decent talent over this past decade by a combination of poor front office and coaching decisions.
    SouthAsianpalehose and chops like this.
  9. Cheeses
    Online

    Cheeses Do not be afraid to crush the cucks with your mind Cupcake Mod

    His exact quote was "Players don't win championships. Organizations do." Pretty tonedeaf and shitty thing to say when you have Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen on your team.
    Alanzo, IWMB and chops like this.
  10. y2chae
    Online

    y2chae Panda

    :biglaff:

    Jesus Christ dude, you gloss over his positives like they are nothing. He made a draft day trade for Pippen. Kukoc was a 2nd round pick. These weren't no brainer type moves like taking Rose #1 or Jordan #3, they were nuanced decisions that paid off big time. He realized the Bulls needed a true center when the NBA still required one and traded the popular Oakley and Jordan's protector for Bill Cartwright.

    I already identified the post dynasty talent he acquired. He had some flops like Ron Mercer and Jalen Rose but if he had just kept the core of Artest, Brand, Chandler, Crawford while adding a PG that would've been a very good team by the mid 2000's. Also lets not forget Jay Williams likely would've been a pretty good NBA player if he wasn't a moron.
  11. y2chae
    Online

    y2chae Panda

    Players are part of the organization. He wasn't saying the players are excluded from credit, but that credit should go through the entire organization.
  12. Cheeses
    Online

    Cheeses Do not be afraid to crush the cucks with your mind Cupcake Mod

    Well, that's all well and good, but MJ certainly didn't take it that way.
  13. y2chae
    Online

    y2chae Panda

    Well yeah, like I said, it was a clash of egos.
  14. Prope
    Online

    Prope RIP soxwon

    Top 50 player all-time. Probably the best on the ball defender of his era....yeah that should really be statement we pass over.
    BeviBall and y2chae like this.
  15. maurice
    Offline

    maurice Gangster of Love

    He was a bag of goo with autism, but he had a real knack for identifying talent.

    I mean, the Pippen find alone...
  16. Jackie Treehorn
    Offline

    Jackie Treehorn Mr. Bullshit Suburb

    His reaction when they won the lottery when all 14 of his chins were moving in a simultaneous motion is what I will remember about him the most. Heard he was a helluva baseball scout in his later years.
    Deuce, Fuller, chops and 1 other person like this.
  17. zmz
    Offline

    zmz By the Banks of the River Chicago

    [​IMG]
    chops likes this.
  18. y2chae
    Online

    y2chae Panda

    Yes it's forgotten he was a baseball scout before and after being Bulls GM. He only became Bulls GM because he was a baseball scout for the Sox. Reinsdorf noticed he was basically a scouting autistic as maurice says and brought him over to the Bulls.
  19. y2chae
    Online

    y2chae Panda

    Bernstein on 670 saying Krause was telling everyone Pippen would be a star, not just an okay player, when he drafted him. He took some relative unknown out of Central Arkansas and was already predicting he would be a star player.

    Also pointed out he brought in Tex Winter and Johnny Bach.
  20. Prope
    Online

    Prope RIP soxwon

    He also brought in Phil because he loved the triangle. I believe he was pretty much going behind Collins' back, but didn't think he could justify firing an NBA coach for a CBA coach.
  21. zmz
    Offline

    zmz By the Banks of the River Chicago

    Best GM in Chicago sports history?
  22. FedEx
    Offline

    FedEx Delivers

    Michael Jordan also pressed Bulls management to get Walter Davis when he was approaching his mid-30s.

    Michael Jordan pouted because Bulls management traded his buddy Charles Oakley for Bill Cartwright and would intentionally pass at Bill's head for years. Cartwright was an instrumental part of the Bulls three titles.

    Michael Jordan didn't want Toni Kukoc on the team and went out of his way to embarrass him during the Olympics. Kukoc wound up being a key to the Bulls 2nd three-peat.

    Also, drafted Kwame Brown and set the Wizards franchise back a decade.

    M-Jeff should thank his lucky stars he played for an organization that made the decisions.
    SouthAsianpalehose, Ziggy and Cheeses like this.
  23. y2chae
    Online

    y2chae Panda

    Michael Jordan also drafted Adam Morrison #3 overall because he was a tall white that made 3's and it reminded him of Larry Bird.
  24. Cheeses
    Online

    Cheeses Do not be afraid to crush the cucks with your mind Cupcake Mod

    Jordan and DITAK, two peas in a pod. #rickywilliams
  25. y2chae
    Online

    y2chae Panda

    If Stan Bowman wins a couple more titles I guess he's in the discussion.
    Ziggy and maurice like this.
  26. Prope
    Online

    Prope RIP soxwon

    Also punched Steve Kerr in practice.
  27. Cheeses
    Online

    Cheeses Do not be afraid to crush the cucks with your mind Cupcake Mod

    Got his dad murdered.
    Jackie Treehorn, BeviBall and chops like this.
  28. AnthraxFan93
    Offline

    AnthraxFan93 BASEBALL GURU

    As of today, Yes no question.
  29. FedEx
    Offline

    FedEx Delivers

    The Krause narrative is such bullshit and yet another example of Michael Jordan being a piece of shit. He didn't like Jerry Krause and thus did everything in his power during his tenure and after to put the man down, berate him and treat him with absolutely no respect.

    Krause inherited Jordan which is a great way to start but let's not act like Jordan waltzed into the league and started dominating. A lot of the narrative that have surrounded LeBron were being said about Jordan at the time: not a winner, only a scorer, selfish, crybaby, etc. It wasn't until Krause build a system around Jordan that things started to click. He was a master scouter (still scouting for MLB teams until his death I believe) and found Scottie. That was an insane pick/trade at the time but he had the balls to do it.

    He had the balls to let Doug Collins go when he was a safe pick and go to Jackson (Jordan said recently Phil was lucky that he was taught the game of basketball by Dean Smith, because Jordan is a fucking asshole).

    He had the balls to remove one of Jordan's security blankets in Charles Oakley for Bill Cartwright, a far more talented scorer and all-around talent than Oakley.

    He had the balls to take a huge chance on Toni Kukoc—let's not remember that European players were still a great unknown at this time—who was a key piece in the Bulls 2nd three-peat.

    He had the balls to trade the reliable, secure Will Purdue for the brash, out-spoken, always in trouble Dennis Rodman. We know how that went.

    The issues with Jerry are always the end of the Bulls dynasty. The narrative that Krause broke them up, which couldn't be further from the truth. Go look at the records, go look at the history. Scottie wanted out years prior and was almost dealt to the Sonics for Shawn Kemp. Every offseason Scottie would say he wanted out and always come back. He wasn't paid well which sucked but hey, he signed a deal that was fair before the salary cap explosion and got screwed in the process. That's not Krause's fault. In the end, Krause and the Bulls did Scottie right by agreeing to a sign and trade with the Rockets to ensure he got maximum value on a free agent deal.

    Phil was out. Jordan was out. Those guys wanted out, those guys were tired and frankly, the team was starting to show cracks. They may have won a title in 1999 but I think everyone knew 1998 was the last hurrah and wanted to go out on top. Can't blame any of them.

    Krause then got aggressive in building the next Bulls team and say what you will but that team in short order acquired a number of guys who would be solid NBA contributors: Elton Brand, Ron Artest, Brad Miller, Jamal Crawford. He went real ballsy in trading Brand for Chandler and drafting Curry. It didn't work, but you have to admire his tenacity. It would be years until Brand would fully realize his potential and even then, the ceiling was pretty low. He shot high with Chandler and Curry.

    In the end, Tyson Chandler DID end up being the best player among those three. So Krause wasn't off-base, he was just overly aggressive, something he did a lot in his career. Some were home runs, others were strikeouts but the very idea that he "lucked" into stuff is patently absurd.
  30. BeviBall
    Offline

    BeviBall No wallet. No crack. Not me.

    So Theo for best GM?
    Cheeses likes this.
  31. maurice
    Offline

    maurice Gangster of Love

    Oakley is 6'8 at the most. Cartwright is a legit 7 footer.

    In hindsight, it's pretty obvious who was a better fit on the front line with Grant and Pippen.
  32. y2chae
    Online

    y2chae Panda

    If he had just kept Brand he would've probably gotten either Chandler or Pau with the 4th pick. I still like the idea of he could've developed a core of Jay Williams, Crawford, Artest, Brand and Chandler. Had that team just stayed intact and gotten a better coach like Rick Carlisle, they would've been one of the best teams in the East by 03-04. Keep in mind the Bulls actually were a top half Eastern conference team by 04-05 with a much less talented core of Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Chandler, Curry.

    Assuming Williams were to stay healthy, he would've been a better player that Hinrich and every other player (besides Chandler being on both teams) is better than their actual Bulls counterpart. If people remember the baby Bulls era was only 3 playoff appearances (one being a 41-41 team). Their try hard team hit a wall and when Ben Wallace came on board and replaced Chandler, it fell apart because Chandler was actually better than Wallace (thanks GarPax).

    Meanwhile Artest and Crawford have been on good playoff teams (Artest has been on like 4 or 5 teams that had deep postseason runs). Elton Brand carried the 05-06 Clippers to 47 wins and a playoff series win for the first time since the 80's.
    maurice likes this.
  33. FedEx
    Offline

    FedEx Delivers

  34. FedEx
    Offline

    FedEx Delivers

    Oakley was one of the few Bulls to step to the Pistons and "enforce" for Jordan. Krause and the Bulls had great insight to realize that style of basketball would soon be falling out of favor and having a multi-talented big man that could score and more importantly space—Cartwright was great at shooting outside of the paint—would be beneficial to Jordan, Pippen and Grant.

    It also helped remove the layers of insulating Jordan had created for himself. All of his "buddies" were gone and it was time to play basketball (and more importantly, win)
  35. y2chae
    Online

    y2chae Panda

    Yeah Grant made Oakley expendable. Grant and Oakley were similar players and you weren't going to trade Grant, who was younger and cheaper. Not to mention Oakley was the more valuable asset. I doubt the Knicks trade Cartwright for Grant at that point.
  36. maurice
    Offline

    maurice Gangster of Love

    Cartwright was a lot more intimidating than people remember. He "accidentally" busted open plenty of foreheads with a high ball rip and collapsed a few larynxes as well.

    I forgot the rest of that trade. The Knicks and the Bulls also swapped picks that turned out to be Will Perdue and Rod Strickland. Since the Knicks already had Ewing, the trade ended up working out pretty damn well for them too.

    I sense a Fed article developing.
  37. y2chae
    Online

    y2chae Panda

    The idea he had the best player ever so he shouldn't get any credit is a crock too. The Cavs had Lebron for what 7 or 8 years and gave him Mo Williams, Big Z, Boobie Gibson, Sideshow Bob, Shaq on his last legs, and they didn't want to trade JJ fucking Hickson at one point to make a deal. So he left.

    Miami had Lebron 4 years and only won in 2 of those years despite having Wade and Bosh with him.
  38. Alanzo
    Offline

    Alanzo Well-Known Member

    I am learning a lot about basketball and the Bulls by reading this thread.
  39. y2chae
    Online

    y2chae Panda

    Cartwright was a tough dude. He eventually got tired of Jordan's bullshit and told him he would beat the shit out of Jordan if he didn't stop acting like a POS. Jordan stopped because he knew Cartwright could kick his ass.

    They didn't really need an enforcer against those Pistons in the end. Pippen, Jordan, Paxson... all those guys learned to stick up for themselves and got in some big fights/altercations with them.
  40. FedEx
    Offline

    FedEx Delivers

    Funny you should say that, it's almost half done and should be up at The Step Back tomorrow. I'll link it :)
    Deuce likes this.
  41. FedEx
    Offline

    FedEx Delivers

    They also learned to just fucking score and take their lumps in exchange for free throws. Bulls ended up have a far more sustainable dynasty and the Pistons are seen as nothing more than the Bulls roadblock on the path to greatness.

    In conclusion, fuck Isiah Thomas.
    Ziggy, Deuce and Fuller like this.
  42. maurice
    Offline

    maurice Gangster of Love

    Cartwright also slapped the shit out of Isiah Thomas in the middle of a game and nearly caused a huge brawl. Probably averted only by the fact that everybody was terrified of Cartwright.

    They probably all remembered the time that he KOed Barkely with a spike elbow mid-dunk.
  43. Cheeses
    Online

    Cheeses Do not be afraid to crush the cucks with your mind Cupcake Mod

    Anyone remember Kevin Matthews' imitation of Bill Cartwright doing standup comedy?
    Fuller likes this.
  44. Unregistered
    Offline

    Unregistered The Facebook of Fucking Cupcake Mod



    :hattip:
    chops likes this.
  45. BeviBall
    Offline

    BeviBall No wallet. No crack. Not me.

    Only the Microwave was left unscathed. Vinnie was the best.
    maurice likes this.
  46. Fuller
    Offline

    Fuller Trump had no ideas, he just went too far

    Yeah, watching Chae and Fed dish on this topic:

    :simon:
    Alanzo likes this.
  47. Fuller
    Offline

    Fuller Trump had no ideas, he just went too far

    You should friend him on FB. He's a pretty down to earth guy.
  48. Cheeses
    Online

    Cheeses Do not be afraid to crush the cucks with your mind Cupcake Mod

    He's at his friends limit.

    :kick:

    But I did learn that his son is in the band Dawes. :ohmy:
    Fuller likes this.
  49. Fuller
    Offline

    Fuller Trump had no ideas, he just went too far

    Yeah, and they are becoming quite regarded!
  50. Fuller
    Offline

    Fuller Trump had no ideas, he just went too far

    He was trying to talk me into going on this Alaska cruise with him and his gang. I've have long desired to sail the inland passage, but there is just no way I can take 2 weeks off the new job this summer.

Share This Page