2016 Trade Deadline

Discussion in 'Take my Konerko, please?' started by IWMB, Jul 21, 2016.

  1. FedEx
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    FedEx Delivers

    I mean, all we know after today is not what type of value they could've gotten for certain guys or anything like that. We know that they think they have a legit chance at being competitive next year. Otherwise, you take deals for guys like Robertson, Melky, Frazier, etc. regardless if they are the perfect deal or you think you're getting equal back. To me, those guys are worth 0 value on the Sox beyond today, obviously, Kenny, Hahn and the crew disagree.
  2. Unregistered
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    Unregistered The Facebook of Fucking Cupcake Mod

    :rolling:
  3. y2chae
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    y2chae Panda

    Yeah you just take the best available deal on the table for Robertson, Melky, Frazier, Jones, Shields... yet the team thinks they have value on the Sox for 2017 which is staggering.
  4. Cheeses
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    Cheeses Chárles le Brun Cupcake Mod

    "Pray we don't suck" appears to be the early frontrunner for the 2017 slogan.
  5. FedEx
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    FedEx Delivers

    2017 Chicago White Sox

    [​IMG]

    "Eh, You Never Know..."
  6. FedEx
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    FedEx Delivers



  7. FedEx
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    FedEx Delivers

    We don't want to be here but nothing we saw made us want to change where we're at.
  8. Cheeses
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    Cheeses Chárles le Brun Cupcake Mod

  9. maurice
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    maurice Gangster of Love

    More Hahn:
    "We had a number of conversations with just about every team in baseball over the last week, but no other deals materialized that made sense from a long-term competitive standpoint."
    "We remain open-minded on anything that will make us better in the long haul."

    Bullshit. Standing pat shows that you think you can compete next year with essentially the same roster that wasn't remotely good enough this year. If you were truly concerned about 2018 and beyond, you'd have a bunch of new prospects right now.
    Jackie Treehorn and whitesox901 like this.
  10. SABRSox
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    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod

    How hard would it have been to replace 90% of this team during the off-season?

    Outside of Sale, Quintana, Rodon, Eaton, Anderson... most of these guys are replaceable, and fairly easily replaceable.
  11. y2chae
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    y2chae Panda

    Right. If the team is hanging it's hat on retaining the likes of Robertson, Melky, Shields, Gonzo and Frazier to remain competitive in 2017, they seem to not understand the talent level of this roster.
  12. Unregistered
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    Unregistered The Facebook of Fucking Cupcake Mod

    Still think you're underestimating the difficulty in trading some of those contracts. Frazier is in a contract year right? Surprised they couldn't load him off on someone else unless they plan on keeping him for some reason. Melky is the best hitter they have, so I guess they want to hold onto him even if they go youth movement. :shrug:
  13. SABRSox
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    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod

    It's either they have no idea what they are doing in regards to pro scouting, or they have absolutely no faith that they can produce a positional prospect into a viable major league player, and if either are true, that's a hallmark organizational failure that must be addressed.
  14. sycked
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    sycked If you loved me, you'd all kill yourselves today.

    Bigger limpdicks: This org or us for following?
    Ziggy, FedEx and Cheeses like this.
  15. y2chae
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    y2chae Panda

    Frazier is arb eligible for 2017 and then a FA in 2018. Even in his down year he's headed to a 3 WAR season, that's worth the $12-14 million he'll get in arbitration, especially considering a 2017 bounce back of a 4 WAR season isn't out of the question. Melky is also a FA after 2017, $15 million for that year, which in today's market is not that bad for a guy currently at a OPS of 830, the 2nd highest of his career. Can he keep it up? Who knows? But the idea of selling high in situations like this is generally a good one...
  16. y2chae
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    y2chae Panda

    Their pro scouting has been garbage since for a good 7-8 years. You have Dunn, Frazier coming in and under performing. The miserable failure that was Kep. Guys that were brought in to assume starting roles for this team in recent years have been guys like De Aza and Gillaspie, who weren't horrible, but I mean if the plan is to just get by with patching up holes with players like De Aza and Gillaspie then :gun2:
  17. zmz
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    zmz By the Banks of the River Chicago

  18. rustysurf83
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    rustysurf83 Cato Institute Shill

    I might become a Mariner's fan, sick of this shit and there won't be a reprieve until JR dies.
  19. s=D
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    s=D Message Board Historian

    Even if they're seeing this glass as half full, why weren't they going after Joe Smith or Jim Johnston for A-ballers to replace the trash that is in our pen?
  20. Unregistered
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    Unregistered The Facebook of Fucking Cupcake Mod

    It's that whole "margin of error" thing that the Sox always lack, where they pin their hopes on these mediocre guys they picked up off the scrap heap instead of spending money and getting those utility guys in case someone gets injured or sucks. That's how you end up having to give JB Shuck, Dioner Navarro, Tyler Saladino and fuckfaces of their ilk 200AB a season. That's not what playoff teams do.
  21. Jackie Treehorn
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    Jackie Treehorn Mr. Bullshit Suburb

    With my relocation to Tampa, the Rays are looking better and better from a fan perspective they just need to get the fuck out of that shitbox of a stadium and St. Pete. The Sox act has just grown tired and I'm done investing time and energy in a team that just keeps repeating the same shit over and over again.
  22. y2chae
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    y2chae Panda

    For whatever reason since the days of getting MLB proven players like AJ, Dye, Thome, Freddy, Thornton, Quentin, Contreras and them actually panning out the Sox haven't been able to really get anyone of note and it work out. Melky is probably the most successful acquisition of a proven MLB player being brought in and working out in the past 8 seasons. For whatever reason we can't hit on a guy like Trumbo or 2015 Kendry Morales, instead we get Adam LaRoche. Or missing out on the influx of Asian talent that has come in the league recently. We had a decent Cuban pipeline going for a while but since Abreu the Sox haven't been involved in trying to get some of these highly regarded Cubans.
  23. Unregistered
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    Unregistered The Facebook of Fucking Cupcake Mod

    Look at the Cubs (already tired of saying that): Schwarber died on opening day, and Heyward is basically a waste of $100mm but you'd never know because they had reinforcements in place. Hell, they didn't even need Heyward (which is why it doesn't matter that him and Shuck are basically the same hitter), they just had the money and thought he'd be a nice cherry on top.
  24. SABRSox
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    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod

    The Cubs also actively decided to lose for 4-5 years badly, as an organizational philosophy, and had the advantage of the beer garden that is Wrigley Field to keep the team viable financially.

    I'm not sure the White Sox could do that and stay afloat, though it probably wouldn't be much worse than the attendance currently is. I imagine there would be a floor to that, but who knows.
  25. y2chae
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    y2chae Panda

    Yeah in a rebuild I don't think attendance would drop off that much. They are struggling with the team they have now. Plus in a real rebuild does it get any worse than the 63 win season we had a few years ago? Probably not.
  26. Unregistered
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    Unregistered The Facebook of Fucking Cupcake Mod

    Yeah, look - if we had some GM wunderkind we could get behind and lead us to the promise land with just 5 years of dogshit, sign me up yesterday. Instead KW and JR and the Loyatly Brigade would never let that shit happen, or probably have the skills to not just let us rot until they got tired of sucking and just traded them all for high prices players in down years, which is what they're best and most comfortable acquiring.
  27. Cheeses
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    Cheeses Chárles le Brun Cupcake Mod

    Whole thread is so :noose: it's painful.

    :larry:
  28. Unregistered
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    Unregistered The Facebook of Fucking Cupcake Mod



    So y'know, might still see the fire sale before 2017.
  29. SABRSox
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    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod

    So they have no faith in their minor league instruction. Sad.

    They need a top to bottom rebuild.
  30. IWMB
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    IWMB Resident Umpire

    The SOX would easily stay afloat on TV & sponsorship money. The Cubs attendance didn't drop mainly because STHs knew the team would be good eventually and didn't give their seats up. Plenty of games had announced figures over 35k with 20,000 butts in seats for those 3 years. But they really didn't need that extra revenue anyway.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
  31. maurice
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    maurice Gangster of Love

    Plus, the Sox surely would pay the rest of their 2016 salaries, so the team that adds them would only have to pay $12-$15 mil. to fill a positional need for one year + two months + potentially two playoff appearances.

    I know we're conditioned to juiced-era offensive numbers and the notion that Sox players are worthless garbage, but Frazier's production (29 HR, 2nd in MLB and 67 RBI, 20th in MLB) is nothing to sneeze at in 2016. He and Melky were two of the very best bats on the market...except that it turns out that they really weren't on the market.

    I need to stop thinking about this, because it's really pissing me off.
    whitesox901 and y2chae like this.
  32. SABRSox
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    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod

    Dodgers are sending Puig to the minors. We could have gotten him for a song, I'd have to believe.
  33. itsnotrequired
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    itsnotrequired Has Had Sex With His Wife At Least Thrice Can Post in Locked Threads

    go anyway, get criminally hammered
    CaptainBallz likes this.
  34. BeviBall
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    BeviBall No wallet. No crack. Not me.

  35. sycked
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    sycked If you loved me, you'd all kill yourselves today.



    :gun2:
  36. Stockdale4Veep
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    Stockdale4Veep Knows the Dewey Decimal System

    According to the score, Sox TV rights are up in 2 years or so, leading to the belief they may not want to rebuild and have a real bad losing product come negotiations.
  37. BeviBall
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    BeviBall No wallet. No crack. Not me.

    If this Sawx/Q story is true...
  38. y2chae
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    y2chae Panda

    Not enough for Q. Q is on pace for a 6 WAR season (has a higher WAR this year than Sale), and has 4.5 years of cost control. Johnson and Ball are hardly notable prospects. Ball is a 22 year old at high A and Johnson is a 25 year old at AAA doing meh. Not saying they can't turn out to be useful MLB arms, but clearly their development has stalled. Not sure who the PTBNL would be, but I would assume it's not a Moncada or Devers, maybe a lower end top 100 at best. Kopech is a top 100 (who is 2-3 years away) while Benintendi is a top 15 prospect nearly MLB ready (he just got called up).

    Compare that to what the Cubs gave up for a rental closer. A top 20, top 100 and a MLB ready arm in Warren who I would say is a #3 starter quality. So the Red Sox wanted Q for a top 15, top 100 and 2 prospects that have stalled in their development and at best a lower end top 100 prospect. For a guy if whose record was 12-4 right now instead of 8-8, he'd be right their in the discussion of the Cy Young? Who makes less than an average of $10 million in the next 4 seasons after this which is one of the greatest values in MLB if he can keep it up?

    They were right to tell the Red Sox to fuck off.
  39. y2chae
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    y2chae Panda

    Now if the Red Sox added Swihart and Devers then I think you are talking.
  40. y2chae
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    y2chae Panda

    The Brewers get a first round pick from last years draft for a LOOGY.

    Sox hold on to Robertson, Jones, Jennings (and Melky, Frazier, Gonzo, Shields)
  41. sycked
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    sycked If you loved me, you'd all kill yourselves today.

    Yeah, I agree with you. My initial reaction was likely due to the compete lack of anything happenong. Not that I know anything about those prospects, but the first two were being thrown around a lot when it came to Sale. Absolutely no point in trading Sale or Q unless you're floored with a deal. Q's contract and production are too good for just two top prospects and a few lottery tickets.

    Throw in that it's Boston, too. Seems like the entire baseball world bends over to hype up their prospects. Will be interesting to follow Benintendi.
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2016
  42. Iwritecode
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    Iwritecode Writing Code Again

    I'm not sure it makes sense to not re-build and come to the same conclusion anyway.
  43. sycked
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    sycked If you loved me, you'd all kill yourselves today.

    Yeah, that seems like a pitiful reason to hold. Aren't the Sox already near the bottom when when it comes to tv ratings? The Sox will command lots of money regardless of the product on the field. That's the nature of being a professional sports team with cable companies desperately clinging on to their last stronghold.
  44. Stockdale4Veep
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    Stockdale4Veep Knows the Dewey Decimal System

    I don't know the ratings this season but Sox are well below the season avg for attendance since 06 and they have to do a lot of promo work to get asses in the seats. A rebuild may drive a large chunk away who don't want to see a team built to lose to maybe win 3-4 years from now.

    Is it possible to keep Sale and Q and build around them? I know they hold the most value but it must be possible to build with them
  45. Iwritecode
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    Iwritecode Writing Code Again

    :helloexactly: Could it really get much worse if they started over from scratch?

    I think the fans would be more willing to support the team if they came out and said we are going to do A, B and C for the next 3 years and that should get us back into the playoffs again rather than what we have now where nobody (including the FO) seems to know what the hell they are doing and our high-water mark over the past few years has been 88 wins.
  46. sycked
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    sycked If you loved me, you'd all kill yourselves today.

    The Sox have been trying to catch lightning in a bottle around Sale (and now Q) for years in an attempt to go on a Giants-esque playoff run. Hasn't worked yet and the reality is that they're running out of time with Sale.
  47. sycked
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    sycked If you loved me, you'd all kill yourselves today.

    In the FO's defense, Abreu looking like an otherworldly bat in 2014 really fucked them over when it came to making moves for the 2015 and 2016 teams. A team with 2014 Abreu and current day Sale + Q wouldn't need that much more help to make it over the hump.
  48. IWMB
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    IWMB Resident Umpire

    Dude, that's a horrible package.

    :gun2: if Hahn accepted.
  49. FedEx
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    FedEx Delivers

    My biggest complaint isn't that they didn't go for the home run deals. I'm fine waiting until the offseason and using leverage against someone who doesn't get a free agent pitcher or whatever, that's fine. What I will not understand is why the fringe assets of this team weren't moved for whatever you can get for them. You don't need to get tremendous value out of Robertson but you need to get SOMETHING. He does nothing for this team right now, or even next year if we're being realistic. Melky is an obvious sell high candidate and the bullpen has quite a few arms that could've been moved. Look at the market for bullpen arms. The fact that the White Sox have decided to sit on those guys as opposed to moving them for position player assets (regardless of their trajectory) is pretty damming.
  50. samram
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    samram Bon Vivant

    I wonder if Hahn was even asked about that yesterday. Questions probably just focused on Sale and Quintana, but they could have made some real headway with some of the other guys. Whatever. We can get the Jeremy Hermida reclamation project next year.

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